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Nobody Significant

My attitude to rivet counting - a personal voyage

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This is just some random thoughts on my general attitude to building model kits.  I emphasise this is just how I think, and other people are welcome to have their own opinions.  As the old saying goes “your mileage may vary”...
I tend to consider three main areas when choosing which specific kit to build (once the subject and scale have been decided upon):

  1. Engineering (or the “fit” of the kit)
  2. Detail
  3. Accuracy

Note that I list them in that order very specifically because, for me personally, that is the priority sequence I think about.  A kit might have good detail and be very accurate to the real-life original, but it’s no good to me if it’s a pig to actually put together.  Big panel gaps and ill-fitting parts will always take precedent over anything else as I have an absolute hatred of filling, puttying and sanding.  But if it goes together well, then that will win out over rivet-counter levels of accuracy.  If it looks like the subject it’s meant to represent, then I really don’t care if a certain wing-shape or fuselage bulge isn’t 100% perfect.  It’s still a <<insert subject here>>, even if the nose is fractionally the wrong shape, or whatever.


At least, that’s how I see it.  I am absolutely not a rivet-counter by any stretch of the imagination.  If there is an easily-correctable, and very obvious fault then, yes, I will consider fixing it.  But the emphasis here must be on the word “easily”.  If it involves drastic cutting or modification, then it’s just not worth the effort as far as I am concerned.  This is a hobby.  It’s something I do for enjoyment.  So if it starts becoming hard work, in any meaning of the words, then it’s not worth the effort.  For me anyway.  I know other modellers will disagree with this fundamentally, and that is their prerogative.  I am not telling anybody how to enjoy their hobby.  This is just how I enjoy my hobby.


The level of detail shown on a kit is sort of in the middle between these two.  However, I will almost always disregard a kit if it has raised panel-lines where they should be engraved for example.  Raised panel lines are far too “1960’s & 70’s” for me to cope with.  They never look right, and you can’t show them up with a nice wash.  Plus, harking back to my comments about accuracy above, the idea of sanding a model back and then re-scribing every panel line by hand is something that you will never, ever find me doing.  That is a perfect example of something being far too much work for me to even consider it.  I’ll find either a different manufacturer, or in the extreme case, find a completely different subject, rather than go through that hell.


But if a kit has no major fit issues, has engraved and crisp panel lines, and is accurate-enough to the real-life original, then that’s good enough for me.

😉

Edited by Nobody Significant
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That pretty much sums up my own view. I build for enjoyment not because I feel I have to produce a perfect miniature of something that actually existed. If someone wants to do that then fair enough – it's just not me.

I have mentioned before that I hate the view that I've heard expressed on more than one occasion that “you should only build something for which there is photographic evidence”, sod off – my model, my rules. This is a hobby not some sort of social obligation.

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Many years ago I converted the Matchbox two seat Hunter into a Lossiemouth T8 and entered it into a local club competition.

We were a small club and the judge was a well known IPMS guy who was visiting one of the members.

I overheard him talking about my model and it appears he ruled it out because I hadn't corrected the 0.572 mm (I made that figure up but you get the point) shortfall in the canopy height.

Get a life.

So saying I hate seeing obvious inaccuracies. I once got shot down for questioning the fact that an absolutely beautiful model Buccaneer had the serials in American style 45 degree numbers.

I suppose that make me on the way to being a rivet counter.

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25 minutes ago, Gorby said:

my model, my rules.

With your builds and associated writings,we had kind of gathered that 😁

There again I suppose you are a hexagonal bolt counter.

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2 hours ago, Gorby said:

 

I have mentioned before that I hate the view that I've heard expressed on more than one occasion that “you should only build something for which there is photographic evidence”, sod off – my model, my rules. This is a hobby not some sort of social obligation.

exactly!

how would they approve of an X-Wing?.....would they say a Star Wars movie is photographic evidence?

i love messing with rivet counters......a long time ago i used to build lots of 'what-ifs'.....it wasnt just the model making, it was the story line or Alternative History behind it i enjoyed creating.......aside from aircraft i once built a British Tank Destroyer........Adder Mk 2......storyline was after the North African campaign was over and Shermans were replacing lots of older tanks thanks to lend-lease there was lots of outdated Cruiser tanks just sat there so someone designed a tank destroyer using the hulls and a limited number were used in the push north through Italy and into Germany

i simply entitiled any thread i posted on any modelling forum 'Adder Mk 2, British Tank Destroyer, 1945' and included the above story

the guys on the what if forum loved it......cos they knew it for what it was

on another forum i had guys pleading for info on where i got the kit, had someone else saying its an out of production Tamiya kit from the 70s!!!!, 'theres not much info on Wiki about this...how many did they produce?' and so on.....of course i kept quiet for a week or so and giggled to myself

the thing that really got them going was that it was a 'Mk2'!!!.......cos that insinuates theres a Mk 1....so when i showed a pic of that kit they went into meltdown cos it lent even more creedance to it all........the mk 1 was simply a practice one id made a month or two earlier to see if i could scratch it all...the Mk2 was just improving on what id learnt to do

it was made from a scrap cruiser hull, casement made out of a plastic Health and Safety sign i snaffled and bits from the spares box

people take themselves far too seriously

 

b3jv4g10.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, RWG686 said:

 

So saying I hate seeing obvious inaccuracies. I once got shot down for questioning the fact that an absolutely beautiful model Buccaneer had the serials in American style 45 degree numbers.

 

now id agree there

like i said, used to do a lot of what ifs and 'historical accuracy' is still sort of important

i once did a MiG 15 in use in the 1950s RAF (was a very long running storyline about WW2 going different.....USA became isolationist so the Commonwealth had to source from the SovBloc).........for that story to work i had to use 50's period RAF camo and roundels........if id used 80s era reoundels it just wouldnt have been 'right' if that makes sense......mind you, it still had a bort number cos a mig without a bort number just isnt right lol

so i agree.......US numbers on a very British aircraft isnt 'right'

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I like this guy :) 

He's a modeller because he likes modelling, not because he wants trophies...  Definately welcome in my hobby room :) 

(which is like 8000k's away, bad bus service, but bring biscuits if you survive the trip) :) 

 

382146873_124new.png.ed5b1eb0cc9250eb396dc03a62e24b19.png

 

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The hobby is different things to different people, live and let live. I get that some in the hobby resent being labelled as 'rivet counters' and regard it as a pejorative. I also get that those that are not bothered about the number of rivets resent receiving gratuitous critique. It can cut both ways. I'm somewhere in the middle, mostly I'm not bothered, but some kits get a 'nope' from me simply because they just don't look right, but I wouldn't be bothered by a stray panel line or the odd dimension being out by a millimetre or three. But neither do I forget that if it weren't for 'rivet counters' there'd be little motivation for the manufacturers to produce accurately dimensioned and shaped kits with faithfully reproduced detailing.

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39 minutes ago, Paul Brown said:

I get that some in the hobby resent being labelled as 'rivet counters' and regard it as a pejorative. I also get that those that are not bothered about the number of rivets resent receiving gratuitous critique.

I think that you've exactly described what makes 'rivet counting' problematic. It's not the actual rivet counting; it's the arrogant assumption on the part of some that they have the god-given right to force their own personal standards onto others.

Those people need to learn where the boundaries are.

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13 minutes ago, Jessie_C said:

I think that you've exactly described what makes 'rivet counting' problematic. It's not the actual rivet counting; it's the arrogant assumption on the part of some that they have the god-given right to force their own personal standards onto others.

Those people need to learn where the boundaries are.

That's exactly what bugs me. Even on builds that I've stated that I know the colours are wrong – and that I don't care, I've had people point out that the colours are wrong. :wallbash:

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43 minutes ago, Jessie_C said:

It's not the actual rivet counting; it's the arrogant assumption on the part of some that they have the god-given right to force their own personal standards onto others.

Those people need to learn where the boundaries are.

 

Funnily enough - and this is very noticeable on Facebook groups, also on some forums - it's often the other way around. I'd suggest it would be a good idea for everybody to learn where the boundaries are and respect the other person's pursuit of the hobby.

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26 minutes ago, Gorby said:

..................................I know the colours are wrong – and that I don't care, I've had people point out that the colours are wrong. 

But NOT always @Gorby. Mate spent 25+ years in the RTR, silly boy built a model of a tank he'd been tank commander of.

Fast forward to that years SMW..........someone comes up and proceeds to 'rip it to shreads', queue my mate, in answer to 'that's wrong, didn't have those', etc. etc. he delved under the table, retrieved seven photo albums and said in a very kind voice, "if you have a look at these, I think you might find that you may be slightly miss informed" It was head down and scuttled off, to where we still don't know!

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I actually have the utmost respect for the purists, as i call them. The amount of work that goes into building and researching some of those models is astounding and i would not even consider saying something was, in my opinion, incorrect, out of respect, you understand. 

But then, in the same breath, i wouldnt expect them to chirp at me if i decided to paint a Spitfire purple and give it Budweiser decals* 

* like i would build a spitfire 😁, but, for good measure, please phone the BxM Spitfire Chummy Club to make sure they havent all just had a complete thromby because of the purple spitfire thing 😁

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48 minutes ago, RWG686 said:

I'm surprised @Jessie_C hasn't produced any ribbet counters so I'll pop this one in.

247717981_05a17e1e34_b.jpg

Not sure  I stirred the Humbrol 30 enough though.

No, No, No! That's a ribbet, not a ribbet counter. This is a ribbet counter.

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1 hour ago, Paul Brown said:

 

Funnily enough - and this is very noticeable on Facebook groups, also on some forums - it's often the other way around. I'd suggest it would be a good idea for everybody to learn where the boundaries are and respect the other person's pursuit of the hobby.

Damn right! I'm pretty cavalier and hate etch etc. but one of my real life best Buddies is Nigel Heath that some of you know from the other place who makes exquisite micro detailed miniatures that win prizes at Telford:

He thinks my stuff is a hoot and I love the amount of eye strain I get peering into his detailed 1/72 helos, and we've never come to blows! Boundaries as the man said.

Respect.

Plus a big bag of rivets to mail to folk if they really annoy you...

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Well when i first read the title of this thread, my mind went back to a falling out we had on here a couple of years ago, as you can imagine i had alarm bells ringing but......... everyone agreed! hallelujah heavens to betsy. as common sense approach, well done all now where's that starfix spitfire? in all seriousness i'm very much a live and let live. I will comment if people want me to but if its a finished model to turn round and say its the wrong shade of RLM76 i would tell someone to jog on  

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Build what you want the way you want to. Be it a 1960 boxing or the latest wonder kit. I realy dont care. Make sure you have fun and you are happy with what you build. Its only plastic

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9 hours ago, Nobody Significant said:

 I am not telling anybody how to enjoy their hobby.  This is just how I enjoy my hobby.

😉

Oh my!  I’m starting to regret ever starting this thread.  Talk about putting the cat amongst the pigeons and feathers everywhere....

I’ll just reiterate what I said in my original post.  This is just how I personally do things, and I am more than happy to let other people enjoy the hobby in their own way.

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9 minutes ago, Nobody Significant said:

Oh my!  I’m starting to regret ever starting this thread.  Talk about putting the cat amongst the pigeons and feathers everywhere....

I’ll just reiterate what I said in my original post.  This is just how I personally do things, and I am more than happy to let other people enjoy the hobby in their own way.

and thats the way it should be 

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1 hour ago, Nobody Significant said:

Oh my!  I’m starting to regret ever starting this thread.  Talk about putting the cat amongst the pigeons and feathers everywhere....

Stop that regret stuff right now.   We like to Turd stir  stimulate debate in this forum.

Cat among pigeons..no. 

As Bachman -Turner Overdrive said 'You aint seen nuthin yet!'

Nothing to beat a bit of banter and a good laugh.

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