Mad Steve 25,051 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Afternoon Everyone I shall apologise upfront, this might be a long thread with quite a few photos. Right then, Pocher... Ever since I was able to actually appreciate what models and cars are, I have loved Bugatti's. I recall seeing two Pocher kits in a model shop, (may have been in Nuneaton, may have been in Brum), probably around 77, 78, and was fascinated from the word go. The problem was, the older I got, the more expensive they got, to a point where they really are now just silly money. I've got Pocher catalogue's that I used to fondle on a regular basis, but there really was only one that I wanted, and that was the Bugatti T50, which, (obviously), turn's out, is one of the hardest of them to find. Little did I know, 40 odd years later, that one was actually sitting in a cupboard just down the road from me, and when the topic came up one day, the chap said he had one, and I bought it on the spot... the most I have ever paid for a kit. If you are unfamiliar with Pocher kits, they are from the late 60's onwards, (even back then they were hellish expensive) and they are kits like no other. You actually build up the model, like the real car, and most of them have working suspension, steering, brakes, lights etc, and have all the internal workings in the engine and gears in the gearbox (simplified obviously). They are absolutely massive kits, with thousands of parts, in a variety of materials, plastic,white metal, brass, aluminium, steel rubber, faux leather and wood, oh and photo etched parts, yes, late 70's and photo etch And just to make it even more interesting, they are an absolute bitch to build, because of the original instructions. (The greatest tip you can ever be given for any Pocher kit... do not assume that whatever screw they tell you to put in that hole will actually fit... redrill all screw holes before you screw anything in Today, you can buy natty CD's that show you how to build each car the best way, but I wanted to build mine as they were intended, using the original instructions, and that has been, well, interesting ( second best tip you can ever get for building a Pocher kit, buy the CD ) So what do you get in the gigantic box... (its 700 x 450mm) They really knew how to pack boxes back then All those screws were taken off the backing and put in three of those plastic storage things, marked with the relevant numbers on the lid. To give you and idea of the size before we kick off... This is the passenger cabin Okey dokey then. I am quite a way into the build, but I thought I'd show you how I got to where I am... (I started in 2016) Engine first Here's a shot of the head, with pistons and crank in place. As you can see, each piston sits in its own metal sleeve. The valve assembly (which also works) will go on top of that. And here is the finished engine & gearbox, mounted into the chassis. You'll notice that the bracket holding on the steering column is broken, yeah, get used to that, the plastic is very brittle. I took it off again and repaired it. Okay then, next up the suspension and rear diff Front The brakes actually have shoes and springs in them, and the entire brake pulley system front and back is tucked inside the chassis. It actually works if you press down on the brake lever (but that took me 4 days to actually get to work) Rear. The leaf springs come pre shaped, you have to bolt them all together And the rear diff One of the fun little quirks (sarcasm) with Pocher kits is the instructions. This entire kit has a 14 page instruction manual and I think each page was designed but 14 different people, then stapled together. For example, You build up the engine and gearbox, then the chassis and mate the two together. You then have to remove the gearbox again, so that you can fit the drive shaft and diff / suspension. once that is done, you now have to remove the engine again to get the front suspension in Next up is the firewall / dashboard Both very large pieces of plastic. I originally used very thin balsa wood as a venier on the dash board, but it just wasn't working so eventually after a lot of thumb sucking, I tried that vinyl covering you use to cover shelves, and I think it worked a treat Eventually, after a year, I had a rolling chassis One of the jobs I was not looking forward too was the interior. There's real fake fluffy stuff for the floor, and real fake leather for the seats, that are made up of plastic backings, then a bit of sponge and the real fake leather goes onto that... (the white pinstriping is plastic rod) And the floor and seats mounted to the chassis I see I missed a bit out, the wheels. The knock offs work so they can be removed. Those tyre's have been sitting in a box since the 70's, they were rock hard. I had them in hot water for about 20 minutes, but it still took me at least half an hour per wheel to get on, plus the two spares Its at this point that I made a pretty dumb mistake. I painted the body, not realising the mission that lay ahead. I have all the door cards assembled ready to go in, and what follows after that is fitting the doors and and then the windows. the windows come in 2 pieces, the actual see throughy bit and the shiny frame. None of the frames fit into the window holes properly, and none of the glass pieces fit into the frames... So I rubbed down the body again, and started on the window frames, not an easy job as you have to try to get them to fit without bending them, but then I got a cool tip from a friend in the states, that you fit the windows to the frames first, glue them in, and then fit the frames to the body. At the moment I have the rear window and front windscreen done, and work needs to start again on the doors and side windows. So this is where it sits today.... Bit of a stupid photo but the black has been rubbed down off its high gloss What has to happen now, is I need to get all the windows fixed in place, then I can fit the gigantic one piece wheel arches, then the luggage box at the back, then the bonnet and heavens bejesus.... it'll be finished (oh and fix the auspuff pipe too) Yes, I am actually planning to finish it sometime soon, no, you don't need to ask me every week If you are looking for a super project, then get yourself one of these, not one of the new modern ones, but one of the old jobbies, they certainly are well worth it, but I'll be honest and say, get the CD to help you with the building, will make things a LOT less stressfull. Sooooo, lets hope this kicks off again soon Mad Steve 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grunhertz 17,497 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Will be watching steve now we know you have it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gorby 21,590 Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 WOW! Just WOW! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Leo 5,986 Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MICHAEL RANKIN 0 Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 HI I HAVE A POCHER BAGGATTI 150 1933 KIT .THE PARTS LOOK ALL THERE THE BOX IS A BIT WORSE FOR WEAR .WOULD ANYONE BE INTERESTED IN IT CHEERS MICK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jag Mate 2,233 Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 Do you still have it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gorby 21,590 Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 13 hours ago, Jag Mate said: Do you still have it? It looks like that member only joined the site to sell his kit and hasn't been back for nearly two years, so I doubt you'll get much luck there. If you click on the members name on the left of the screen, it'll allow you to send a message with should go to his email inbox. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jag Mate 2,233 Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 Thank you kindly. I only asked him because I am building one of these kits which I have had for almost thirty years! I will post about it soon. It is a quite unbelievable model. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Steve 25,051 Posted July 14 Author Report Share Posted July 14 Nice one Jag Mate Always good to see old Pochers being built. Mine has not advanced any further from what I posted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DC3 4,778 Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 On 1/21/2020 at 2:06 PM, Mad Steve said: Afternoon Everyone I shall apologise upfront, this might be a long thread with quite a few photos. Right then, Pocher... Ever since I was able to actually appreciate what models and cars are, I have loved Bugatti's. I recall seeing two Pocher kits in a model shop, (may have been in Nuneaton, may have been in Brum), probably around 77, 78, and was fascinated from the word go. The problem was, the older I got, the more expensive they got, to a point where they really are now just silly money. I've got Pocher catalogue's that I used to fondle on a regular basis, but there really was only one that I wanted, and that was the Bugatti T50, which, (obviously), turn's out, is one of the hardest of them to find. Little did I know, 40 odd years later, that one was actually sitting in a cupboard just down the road from me, and when the topic came up one day, the chap said he had one, and I bought it on the spot... the most I have ever paid for a kit. If you are unfamiliar with Pocher kits, they are from the late 60's onwards, (even back then they were hellish expensive) and they are kits like no other. You actually build up the model, like the real car, and most of them have working suspension, steering, brakes, lights etc, and have all the internal workings in the engine and gears in the gearbox (simplified obviously). They are absolutely massive kits, with thousands of parts, in a variety of materials, plastic,white metal, brass, aluminium, steel rubber, faux leather and wood, oh and photo etched parts, yes, late 70's and photo etch And just to make it even more interesting, they are an absolute bitch to build, because of the original instructions. (The greatest tip you can ever be given for any Pocher kit... do not assume that whatever screw they tell you to put in that hole will actually fit... redrill all screw holes before you screw anything in Today, you can buy natty CD's that show you how to build each car the best way, but I wanted to build mine as they were intended, using the original instructions, and that has been, well, interesting ( second best tip you can ever get for building a Pocher kit, buy the CD ) So what do you get in the gigantic box... (its 700 x 450mm) They really knew how to pack boxes back then All those screws were taken off the backing and put in three of those plastic storage things, marked with the relevant numbers on the lid. To give you and idea of the size before we kick off... This is the passenger cabin Okey dokey then. I am quite a way into the build, but I thought I'd show you how I got to where I am... (I started in 2016) Engine first Here's a shot of the head, with pistons and crank in place. As you can see, each piston sits in its own metal sleeve. The valve assembly (which also works) will go on top of that. And here is the finished engine & gearbox, mounted into the chassis. You'll notice that the bracket holding on the steering column is broken, yeah, get used to that, the plastic is very brittle. I took it off again and repaired it. Okay then, next up the suspension and rear diff Front The brakes actually have shoes and springs in them, and the entire brake pulley system front and back is tucked inside the chassis. It actually works if you press down on the brake lever (but that took me 4 days to actually get to work) Rear. The leaf springs come pre shaped, you have to bolt them all together And the rear diff One of the fun little quirks (sarcasm) with Pocher kits is the instructions. This entire kit has a 14 page instruction manual and I think each page was designed but 14 different people, then stapled together. For example, You build up the engine and gearbox, then the chassis and mate the two together. You then have to remove the gearbox again, so that you can fit the drive shaft and diff / suspension. once that is done, you now have to remove the engine again to get the front suspension in Next up is the firewall / dashboard Both very large pieces of plastic. I originally used very thin balsa wood as a venier on the dash board, but it just wasn't working so eventually after a lot of thumb sucking, I tried that vinyl covering you use to cover shelves, and I think it worked a treat Eventually, after a year, I had a rolling chassis One of the jobs I was not looking forward too was the interior. There's real fake fluffy stuff for the floor, and real fake leather for the seats, that are made up of plastic backings, then a bit of sponge and the real fake leather goes onto that... (the white pinstriping is plastic rod) And the floor and seats mounted to the chassis I see I missed a bit out, the wheels. The knock offs work so they can be removed. Those tyre's have been sitting in a box since the 70's, they were rock hard. I had them in hot water for about 20 minutes, but it still took me at least half an hour per wheel to get on, plus the two spares Its at this point that I made a pretty dumb mistake. I painted the body, not realising the mission that lay ahead. I have all the door cards assembled ready to go in, and what follows after that is fitting the doors and and then the windows. the windows come in 2 pieces, the actual see throughy bit and the shiny frame. None of the frames fit into the window holes properly, and none of the glass pieces fit into the frames... So I rubbed down the body again, and started on the window frames, not an easy job as you have to try to get them to fit without bending them, but then I got a cool tip from a friend in the states, that you fit the windows to the frames first, glue them in, and then fit the frames to the body. At the moment I have the rear window and front windscreen done, and work needs to start again on the doors and side windows. So this is where it sits today.... Bit of a stupid photo but the black has been rubbed down off its high gloss What has to happen now, is I need to get all the windows fixed in place, then I can fit the gigantic one piece wheel arches, then the luggage box at the back, then the bonnet and heavens bejesus.... it'll be finished (oh and fix the auspuff pipe too) Yes, I am actually planning to finish it sometime soon, no, you don't need to ask me every week If you are looking for a super project, then get yourself one of these, not one of the new modern ones, but one of the old jobbies, they certainly are well worth it, but I'll be honest and say, get the CD to help you with the building, will make things a LOT less stressfull. Sooooo, lets hope this kicks off again soon Mad Steve Corrr! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin 6,199 Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 a dream kit for me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Steve 25,051 Posted July 14 Author Report Share Posted July 14 Oh yes, this kind of kit would suit you Kevin Have a look also at the Vintage Pocher Rolls Royces Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jag Mate 2,233 Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 A prezzie for you Steve to go with your finished car. A 1932 Bugatti sales brochure for the 50T. D 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PaulC 548 Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 I used to see these in the model shop windows as a long haired kid in the 80s, and wished I could afford one. I am now older, with less hair, but I still can't afford one.... 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Steve 25,051 Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 Oh wow, thank you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Steve 25,051 Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 27 minutes ago, PaulC said: I used to see these in the model shop windows as a long haired kid in the 80s, and wished I could afford one. I am now older, with less hair, but I still can't afford one.... me too Paul. I've built two Alfas for people,but not built one for me and this was my no1 grail kit, so when it was offered i spoke first and worried later. Pah, who needs food anyway. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jag Mate 2,233 Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Check this out guys. October last year. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Steve 25,051 Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 Holy sheet... 5 thousand dollars!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jag Mate 2,233 Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Keep building kid! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Steve 25,051 Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 Ok Ok, don't get too excited... I haven't taken the plunge again just yet, but Jag Mate asked a question regarding the foot plates on the fenders. When we say, oooh these are so big, I need to clear space, it's no joke... This is the size of the box (look at the bottom right corner of the box, that's a Tamiya paint pot for size... This was originally released in the 70's. This version is the 90's re-release and all of the Bugatti's are very sought after now (and obviously very expensive) The sell your granny version is the 1933 Surprofile, Hens teeth is nothing.... Only ever seen one. Here's the Fender Please note, the fender isn't painted yet, so I have just done one piece. Okay, Bare Metal Foil(BMF), excellent stuff and you can use it on Aircraft too. It's also an excellent, but expensive way, of canopy masking as well. Ok then. (I will just take the assumption you haven't used BMF before) Measure the piece you need cut out a strip and place on the raised bit (it's easier to do one piece of a time) Taken a cotton bud and rub down all along the foil for a couple of minutes, after which go around the perimeter of the raised piece with a tooth pick. Once that's done, using a new knife blade, cut around the piece until you have... Some sheets of BMF do leave a bit of a residue,(they have improved on this now) but if it does leave a residue on your kit, don't use anything to try and remove it. This little nugget of a tip was given to me by an old member of IPMS US. Now don't laugh...rub your finger on your cheek, then rub over the residue and hey presto, it goes away. It's the oiliness of your skin that lifts and removes it. Believe me, if you get residue on a canopy, and can't remove it, you'll thank me for that tip. JagMate, hope this helps in some way or form.... 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jag Mate 2,233 Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 You are an absolute star and thank you bigly muchly for giving me some of your time. Now all I need to know is from where to source the stuff. I'll start with one of the advertisers on here I think. From where do you get yours? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jag Mate 2,233 Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Steve, A thought occurred when you said you're stripping back and you also liked the red over black colours. The red only replaces the yellow bits. Why don't you change to the red? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Steve 25,051 Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 35 minutes ago, Jag Mate said: You are an absolute star and thank you bigly muchly for giving me some of your time. Now all I need to know is from where to source the stuff. I'll start with one of the advertisers on here I think. From where do you get yours? An absolute pleasure Sir. I got mine from a local model shop here in SA, but I'm sure Hannants will have some, but I suspect most places will have it. If I may suggest, buy the normal Chrome one, not the Super Shiny Chrome, it's just too shiny. 19 minutes ago, Jag Mate said: Steve, A thought occurred when you said you're stripping back and you also liked the red over black colours. The red only replaces the yellow bits. Why don't you change to the red? Oh bugger off ... Yes, I'm thinking of changing the colour, either red & black, or, for something completely different... Black & Ivory (which to me, epitomizes the '30's look) Or, Black & Ivory (which to me, epitomizes the '30's look) aaaaaaand one final idea, is completely Black, like Dubos Black on the Type 57 Atlantique, but there's no pic of that. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jag Mate 2,233 Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Nah - not all black mate. Do you airbrush acrylics? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jag Mate 2,233 Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 I think the black over cream looks very classy and, as you say, is very 30's in-period. Go for it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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