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Che Guava

Battle of the Forth - Ju-88 and Spitfire scheme info wanted

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Help!!! I'm doing an information board about the Battle of the Forth for a friend to display in his engineering works. I thought it would be good to build 1/72 (or 1/144th if anybody does easy to get kits) of 1/KG30 JU88 and 603sqn Spitfire to mount on the board. However, this this completely out of my zone of knowledge, so........can anyone help with information on which kits to use, what would be the likely scheme, and if the actual serial numbers and codes are known.

If you maybe have missed the historic significance of this 'skirmish', It was the first time German aircraft were brought down on British territory since WW1, and the first combat victory for the Spitfire. My friend reckons he has a bit of the Jumo engine from the first JU88 brought down!!!

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For Ju-88A it would most likely be an A-5 or A-4 you are looking for I think. Revel or Hasegawa would be first places to look for an A-4, can’t remember if there is an A-5 off the shelf or if you’d have to do a conversion.

Finish would be standard RLM70/71 on top, most likely RLM65 underneath but could have had a black distemper.

I’ll have a look in my references tomorrow and see if I can find specific details.

Duncan B

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31 minutes ago, BlackMike Models said:

For Ju-88A it would most likely be an A-5 or A-4

Kg30 were actually equipped with A-1s at the time of the Forth raid (their aircraft were delivered Sept 1939). A-4s and A-5s didn't become operational until 1940, the A-4 later in the year because of a delay with engine issues. A-5s were a stop-gap, being A-1s fitted with the A-4 wing. 

There's no A-1 kit in 1/72 (bit of a mystery really, although there's a rather splendid 1/32 kit by Revell), the closest to an A-1 is the A-5 by Zvezda. Conversion to A-1 is relatively simple, the wing tips need trimming and you need to acquire the Falcon Clear Vax set No. 9 for the A-1 canopy. The Zvezda series of '88 kits are not at all bad.

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I will be home this weekend,so I'll research the Spit for you.

IIRC,Airfix did an XT coded 603 Spit on their 70's Mk.1 kit at some stage,possibly a BBMF issue.

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8 hours ago, Che Guava said:

 (or 1/144th if anybody does easy to get kits) of 1/KG30 JU88 and

I think I have a Revell 144th Ju 88 which you can have if you decide to go down that route.

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10 hours ago, Walrus said:

Was that the skirmish associated with Preston Pans?

If you mean the machine gunning of the farm workers then no as that was later in the war.

@Che Guava has borrowed my Luftwaffe over Scotland book so don't have date to hand.

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1 hour ago, RWG686 said:

If you mean the machine gunning of the farm workers then no as that was later in the war.

@Che Guava has borrowed my Luftwaffe over Scotland book so don't have date to hand.

No mention of Preston Pans in the index.

Walrus might be thinking of the Battle of Preston Pans, 1745 where at a quarter to six, a highland charge (17 groats for a fish tea) defeated government forces who retreated to Sunderland Flying Boat and flew back to Southampton for a full English Brexit.

Edited by Che Guava
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Nope.  Nor was it the traditional highland games contest to see who could polish their cooking utensils to such a shine as to brown the other contestants' grandmothers by reflecting the sun's rays
aka The Clansmans' Frying Pan Nan Tan Tournament

The Ju88 came down not far from Prestonpans

Quote

Twisting and turning the JU88 headed back towards the sea and was shot down into the sea at Prestonpans followed by two more bombers.


 

Edited by Walrus
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Walrus is quite right about Prestonpans as that is where the remains of a Jumo engine were recovered by a fishing boat a few years ago.

I was mistakenly thinking of the Battle of the Froth where a jelly pan full of strawberries boiled over and triggered the Hundred Jars War when the 19th Robertson's Preserve Regiment of the Lime attacked the Mamelade regiment of Napoleon's Mint Imperial Guard in the Orangery.

Edited by Che Guava
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1 hour ago, Che Guava said:

Walrus is quite right about Prestonpans as that is where the remains of a Jumo engine were recovered by a fishing boat a few years ago.

I was mistakenly thinking of the Battle of the Froth where a jelly pan full of strawberries boiled over and triggered the Hundred Jars War when the 19th Robertson's Preserve Regiment of the Lime attacked the Mamelade regiment of Napoleon's Mint Imperial Guard in the Orangery.

My guess is he's been driven mad by reading too many of 686's "jokes", I may not be too far behind.

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4 hours ago, Che Guava said:

I was mistakenly thinking of the Battle of the Froth where a jelly pan full of strawberries boiled over and triggered the Hundred Jars War when the 19th Robertson's Preserve Regiment of the Lime attacked the Mamelade regiment of Napoleon's Mint Imperial Guard in the Orangery.

I thought that battle took place in Jamaica 

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15 minutes ago, Walrus said:

I thought that battle took place in Jamaica 

No, You're thinking of New Jam, capital of the Confiture States of America where General Robert E Numbers battled against the forces stirring in Alajama.

The island of Jamaica was of course named after the Bob Marley song.

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5 hours ago, DC3 said:

I may not be too far behind

Those afflicted are always the last to know.

Reading the above,it looks like I've got serious competition!.

Amazing thread drift though.

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An excerpt from 602 Squadron Museum Association's website:

First shots fired in aerial war by George Pinkerton
War was declared on the 3rd of September 1939 and both 602 and 603 (City of Edinburgh) Squadrons had little time to wait for action. On the 16th of October, 602 pilot George Pinkerton intercepted and inconclusively attacked an enemy Heinkel 111 in doing so he fired the first shots of the war over the skies of Great Britain. Much has been written about this historic first encounter with the Luftwaffe. Later the same day George Pinkerton (602) and Archie McKellar (602) attacked Helmut Pohle's Ju88 and brought it down off Crail. Credit for this kill was given to George Pinkerton. Pat Gifford (603) was on the other side of the Forth where he attacked another Ju88 and brought it down into Aberlady Bay.

 

 

So,you've got a choice of three or four Spits,a 603(XT) kite flown by Pat Gifford,or one of three from 602(ZT or LO)flown by Paul Webb,

George Pinkerton or Archie"Killer"McKellar.

It seems that Gifford of 603 shot one '88 down,Pinkerton/McKellar another and Webb possibly sufficiently damaged the one that

managed to get back to the Netherlands(the raiding force of 9 or 12 had come in from Sylt)but subsequently crashed there killing all on board.

Webb may or may not have managed to get a shot off,but he was certainly on the action with Pinkerton and McKellar.

The Spits of both units would very much likely have been finished in the pre-war/early wartime finishes of DE/DG

with half black half white/silver undersides.

Assertain which aircraft you want and I'll gladly have a go at the ground work for you.

Here's Paul Webb:

http://bbm.org.uk/airmen/Webb.htm

Archie McKellar:

http://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/McKellar.htm

 

Pat Gifford(actually credited with the Preston Pans shoot down):

https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/first-of-the-few-is-honoured-70-years-on-1-804253

Lions Rampant:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lions-Rampant-Story-Spitfire-Squadron/dp/0718305728

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