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10 hours ago, Grunhertz said:

Mistakes happen mate 

Especially when you know nothing about the subject at hand. Anyhow I have looked at removing the sponsons and it’s a no go. There is a down side to a perfect fit after all!

I will finish it off for the practice at weathering a Tank as that’s something I don’t have a lot of experience at. 

Duncan B

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I never noticed anything wrong with the tank Duncan, you should have kept quiet about it. In fact I thought you were building a Spad. I kept thinking that's a fuuny shape for an aircraft, it was only when I saw the picture of it painted I realised you had started on another kit 🙄 You're not the only one that doesn't read things properly

Cheers Andy

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1 hour ago, BlackMike Models said:

Especially when you know nothing about the subject at hand. Anyhow I have looked at removing the sponsons and it’s a no go. There is a down side to a perfect fit after all!

I will finish it off for the practice at weathering a Tank as that’s something I don’t have a lot of experience at. 

Duncan B

The nice thing about weathering tanks is basically anything goes and its governed by your personal taste... Not like aircraft and vehicles that have to be done this way or that way. Even better on WW1 vehicles because there is not as much photographic info on them. Just don't make the tracks rusty, apparently they didn't rust (what I was told on my whippet build) :) 

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Try running some extra thin Tamiya cement along the joins, Duncan.  The one with the light green top
It loosens the bond, especially if you used Tamiya cement
Might take a couple or three goes.  

Edit:  Just seen your comment about leaving it be 
Apologies for posting before getting up to speed.   

I'd be tempted to convert to a "War of the Worlds" tank with modified laser weaponry 
But never get around to it ! lol 

Edited by Walrus
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6 hours ago, Mad Steve said:

The nice thing about weathering tanks is basically anything goes and its governed by your personal taste... Not like aircraft and vehicles that have to be done this way or that way. Even better on WW1 vehicles because there is not as much photographic info on them. Just don't make the tracks rusty, apparently they didn't rust (what I was told on my whippet build) :) 

So what colours should I use on the tracks? I’ve painted them a steel colour as a base but need to finish them off. 

Duncan B

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I am guessing Gaza is dry unlike Gazza who is not so lots of dust flying around. 

I’ve still to do something with the tracks, suggestions welcome. 

IMG_5205-600x426.jpg IMG_5204-600x419.jpg IMG_5202-600x390.jpg

Duncan B

Edited by BlackMike Models
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Looks good but the tracks look a little too shiny. Perhaps a darkish wash to dull them down.

I still think a little rust wouldn't look amiss, I just found this photo and it looks a tiny bit rusty:

Mark_IV_tank.jpg

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9 hours ago, Mad Steve said:

Just don't make the tracks rusty, apparently they didn't rust (what I was told on my whippet build) :) 

Now where is that can of worms thing that Darren once used.

I guess it depends how old the tank is and where it has been.

I believe good quality alloy steel, in a uncontaminated environment rusts at around .05mm per year, so 20years for 1mm of rust. Salt air, dampness and other additions would accelerate this. Rust on solid steel works from the outside-in and if it’s regularly being prevented from starting, like an in-use railway line, then it should remain rust free.

Now please don’t expect me to get into a deep meaningful conversation on this, you need a metallurgy forum for that. Somewhere you can discuss all sorts of steels and irons and why piers last so long 😂😂

 

However for rusty tracks on a Whippet, try here. The pictures are towards the bottom of the page.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=233#armament

Edited by Toolmaker
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I shall add a wash and maybe a little bit of light rust. 8 secondhand Mk.1s were sent to the Middle East so the tracks might have had little rust on them when they arrived? 

Duncan B

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:) I'm trying to recall the whole conversation, but i beieve it has something to do with the material the tracks were made from on the early tanks. Anyway lets not, as suggested open that can of vipers. 

I base coated the tracks black, then dry brushed them with dark iron, added some dusty bits then used a pencil to shine up the raised sections. 

On a side note, always thought quietly to myself, how can you tell tracks are rusted or not rusted from 100 year old black & white photo's :)

 

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I think rattling around on the ‘roads’ around Gaza would polish the rust off the tracks anyway. 

I shall have a read of my only Armour modelling book and see what I can do. 

Duncan B

Edited by BlackMike Models

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4 hours ago, RWG686 said:

Some interesting reading with photos in here Duncan 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/149709-tank-use-in-the-second-battle-of-gaza/

Good view of the tracks in this pic of a destroyed on in Palestine.

Palestine-3.jpg

 

 

Great article and interesting to note that Master Box got their history on the subject correct. 

I’m still not sure what to do about the tracks after looking at the photos. 

Duncan B

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1 hour ago, BlackMike Models said:

I’m still not sure what to do about the tracks

No point in asking me because I still haven't finished that Merkava but...

Do you know if the transverse sticky up bits  (sorry to go tech on you!) are metal?

If so my suggestion would be non rusty but tarnished on the flat bits and dull steel,with a wee bit more shine where they make contact. Someone posted a railway line analogy earlier and that's what I'd aim for. (but not rust like the bottom of rails)

Just post all of your work in black and white :stirthepot:

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Something to throw in the pot.....Duncan, @BlackMike Models with the tank being deployed in a desert environment, the sand would keep any rust to a minimum on the tracks, also, it would scour any paint finish on all exposed surfaces, bit like sand blasting, so the sponson edges and rivet heads would be more prone to being stripped back to bare metal. If you take a look at the photo of the Mk1 (female) @Gorby posted above, the latteral lines across the nose possibly started where boot hobnails used to come into contact......squaddies just don't care, where they put their feet!

Oh, and have a close look at the shape of and angles on the sponsons..............

R, @RWG686 can't give an absolute answer about the transverse members (Oo, er, missus!) but I would say yes, metal.

Got to be remembered the Mk.1 wasn't built from armour grade steel, best they'd have would be hardened steel, which was done by heating and quenching........... Compare the damage, the steel has shattered in the photo above, with damage to any tank on a W.W.II or later battlefield, turrets detached / blown off, holes through the body but even a Sherman hit with an 88mm shell didn't look like that.

Hope it's of some use?

Paul (son of a tankie)

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I had thought about the effect of the dry sandy conditions on the tracks. 

I know nothing of these things but in that thread that is linked early they mention of the 8 mk1 tanks shipped to Gaza had come straight off the training grounds in the U.K. and it took a week of chipping to get all the mud out of the tracks on arrival in Gaza!

After my weekend’s excursion I am hoping to get back to my little Tank tomorrow and get it finished in time for my club meeting in the evening. 

Duncan B

Edited by BlackMike Models
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Finally managed to get back to the modelling table today (these model shows are really getting in the way of my hobby!).

I have darkened the track plates but left the raised parts lighter as I figure they would be getting ‘polished’ by the Gaza sand and grit. I’ve also applied a dark wash to the tracks so that just leaves me with a bit of dust to apply to them I think.

IMG_5223-600x450.jpg IMG_5225-600x450.jpg

Still too shiny but the dust will sort that out I think.

Duncan B

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I'm calling the Starter done. I've added some lighter dust effects to the point where I think it's over done but they were probably covered in dust unless it rained at all in Gaza.

Quite a fun kit to build, would be even more fun if I'd followed the instructions!

IMG_5232-L.jpg

Now on to the main course starting with the D.VII

IMG_5235-L.jpg

Duncan B

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